[identity profile] funhouse.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] ontd_football
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How was your week? I hope you're all safe

Date: 2016-07-15 11:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] givemedaughters.livejournal.com
This aggregator of Facebook live streams is amazing. Hover over Turkey, for example.
https://www.facebook.com/live (https://www.facebook.com/live)

Date: 2016-07-16 08:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] untxi.livejournal.com
i don't even use facebook, but this is fantastic. ty!

Date: 2016-07-17 01:11 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lady-teazle.livejournal.com
Amazing! Right now Crystal Palace is playing FC Cincinnati. Or was, at any rate.

Date: 2016-07-16 12:05 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] meliadoul.livejournal.com
Everyone's playing Pokémon Go or lying about playing Pokémon Go.

Date: 2016-07-16 02:38 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sassysailorgirl.livejournal.com
Your Squirtle icon is too cute!

I have it!

Date: 2016-07-16 06:00 am (UTC)
ext_18328: (alli)
From: [identity profile] jazzypom.livejournal.com
Got it Thursday, I believe, and didn't get around to really playing it until yesterday. Did over two miles identifying Pokémon stops near me, and am going walking again today so I can get moar. I am trying to avoid purchasing coins though (although I do want a lure, an incubator, etc).

Date: 2016-07-16 12:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blackjedii.livejournal.com
apparently Poldi attended Schweinsteiger's wedding

and I'm like

of course he did

Lahm didn't, I hear

Date: 2016-07-16 06:00 am (UTC)
ext_18328: (alli)
From: [identity profile] jazzypom.livejournal.com
Because he said he wasn't invited?

Date: 2016-07-16 04:11 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ananasonastick.livejournal.com

The way Turkey coup forces are behaving doesn't fit any past coup attemp. And we had so many. You can't analyze this by induction. Wait.

— Zeynep Tufekci (@zeynep) July 16, 2016 (https://twitter.com/zeynep/status/754152925841285120)



The coup attempt sought to turn Erdogan into a Morsi. He's now poised to become a Putin.

— Hassan Hassan (@hxhassan) July 16, 2016 (https://twitter.com/hxhassan/status/754140172531314688)

Date: 2016-07-16 04:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pullhimdown.livejournal.com
I know a few people who think the whole thing was orchestrated by Erdogan :/

My word if that's true

Date: 2016-07-16 04:22 pm (UTC)
ext_18328: (alli)
From: [identity profile] jazzypom.livejournal.com
So Turkey will hew further to the religious whatever it is? Sad, that.

RE: My word if that's true

Date: 2016-07-16 04:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pullhimdown.livejournal.com
From what I've gathered (though my understanding of the Middle East and adjacent regions is questionable at the best of times, so take this with a grain of salt), Turkish military has historically been a bastion of democracy and of a secular world, and Erdogan has been working for a while towards taking power away from them.

Even if it was a genuine coup, it's going to work out perfectly for him.

It was very poorly planned overall. How you attempt a coup without ensuring you have the full military behind you and without making cutting off communication your top priority is completely beyond me. The whole thing was lost the moment civilians took to the streets. After that, the military could either surrender or make the whole thing such a blood bath that it'd be civil war in Turkey.

Mind you, the few videos of military opening fire on civilians will still go a long way.

RE: My word if that's true

Date: 2016-07-16 08:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ananasonastick.livejournal.com
Most probably yes.

Date: 2016-07-16 08:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ananasonastick.livejournal.com
I wouldn't be so sure.

There are many voices etc. but most of the professors and experts on Turkey I follow seem to think that Erdogan learned about possible coup and used his people to speed it up and win it.

And there's of course the burning question about Americans - that Kerry's comment and some other's politicians responses were questionable at least. Plus isn't the most of the coup Army from the base where Americans are at?

Anyway, it's too early to judge. But it's very unfortunate the coup happened and it failed.

Date: 2016-07-16 08:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pullhimdown.livejournal.com
There was also a lot of talk about France closing their consulate in Turkey two days ago.

What's Kerry said? From what I saw of international statements, everyone defended that democracy should be respected without ever saying Erdogan's name. There's not a lot that they could've done, tbh. For better or worst, Erdogn has been democratically elected. Most countries won't outright support people fighting against a democratic leader. Plus, Turkey is is NATO, and I'm pretty sure this counts as an attack on a member state. To support the rebels would be an international mess.

There were lots of talk last night about whether or not this meant the rebels had gotten international backing or not or the promise of it, and one of the arguments in favor of Erdogan planning this.
Edited Date: 2016-07-16 08:42 pm (UTC)

Date: 2016-07-16 09:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ananasonastick.livejournal.com
Yes, France seems to have great connections which they don't know how to use well sometimes.

I was basically following it since it started with "something is happening in Turkey, they are soldiers on two bridges???" moment. Around the time Erdogan was on the television via face-time Kerry said (idk if it was shortly before or after) that he hopes for stability, peace, continuity in Turkey and then some American senators started going on how now the ~~real democracy~~ will be in Turkey (there was a whole fight about it on Twitter). People went on how it shows that the US in backing "New Egypt".

Kerry later said that all in Turkey should support democratically-elected government. I was almost falling asleep at this point but people were tearing him apart for waiting until Erdogan was winning. They were also praising the EU for saving face because they reacted way before the US.

And people were also mentioning an article from May where Newsweek republished the analysis of a former Pentagon official who concluded that, should elements in the Turkish military stage a coup, they would “get away with it.” (I was too lazy to Google).

And pro-American Egyptian outlets (I do not understand the language so I follow translators into English and Polish) started spreading rumours that Erdogan was flying to Germany to ask for a refugee there, got denied ans went to the UK instead.

There's also a question who the Gulen guy is because most of people try to show him as "modern man" but apparently he' also has sinister reputation and is pro-radical Islam. And the US only reacted when his journalists were jailed in Turkey not any others.


There were lots of talk last night about whether or not this meant the rebels had gotten international backing or not or the promise of it, and one of the arguments in favor of Erdogan planning this.

The coup was very different from all the others because no party was backing this and everyone (even Kurds) asked people not to join it (which didn't happen in '97).

And then suddenly Erdogan fires over 2k judges which is questionable at least.

2016 needs to take a break

Date: 2016-07-16 06:02 am (UTC)
ext_18328: (alli)
From: [identity profile] jazzypom.livejournal.com
Everyday there is some new disaster.

2016 will go down as Britain's annus horribilis , I can say that.
Edited Date: 2016-07-16 06:02 am (UTC)

Date: 2016-07-16 08:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] marsyke.livejournal.com

2016 is just a whole mess for everyone. At the rate this is going, we'll end up with trump too.

Re: RE: 2016 needs to take a break

Date: 2016-07-16 04:21 pm (UTC)
ext_18328: (alli)
From: [identity profile] jazzypom.livejournal.com
May is keeping her friends close and enemies closer, tbh. She's put Johnson, Davis and Hammond, people who want the Brexit in charge of Brexiting. So if they can't make it work, it's all on them (especially since we have no trade ministers because they got retired when we folded into the EU). So they have it all to do, and trying to have their cake and eat it the same time. Good luck to us.

If nothing else, Cameron and Osborne are gone. Cameron was high on his own dick, and Osborne seemed to be a sociopath, I swear. People were supposedly committing suicide because they were getting their benefits cut off (the government refuses to release reports to get to the bottom of the claims), and a LOT of people who voted to leave the EU did it because Osborne threatened MORE social cuts if we did.

But if you're already at a food bank (cities up North) and looking at committing suicide, and child poverty has increased to the point where the UN is actually chastising the government, what's the concept EU to you? Especially since there seems to be a class war in terms of the Tories wanting to obliterate you (in terms of driving you to suicide). So Osborne blinked and they didn't and here we are.

That being said, May has some strange people to various ministries though. Andrea Leadsom thinks that men shouldn't work with children because they are more likely to be pedophiles (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/andrea-leadsom-men-paedophiles-childcare-workers-hired-sensible-a7139351.html), and she's a climate change denier, joy. She's also making noise about subsidiaries to farming (a lot of farmers voted to stay in the EU because of that).

There's another woman who's head of International Aid - Priti Patel - but she doesn't believe in it (and International Aid was a pet project of Cameron's) so I would imagine that being cut.

So yeah, Mrs May has a LOT on her plate. But Labour (our opposition) is imploding, so good luck in calling a snap election if they can't even get sort out their leader.

I knew the Conservatives were right wing (most of the brexiters) but I didn't realise how knuckle dragging backwards in thought they are. You get the feeling they'd ban abortion ala the American right if they could.
Edited Date: 2016-07-16 04:24 pm (UTC)

Re: 2016 needs to take a break

Date: 2016-07-17 01:13 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lady-teazle.livejournal.com
France will probably agree that they can't wait to see the last of 2016.

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